Controversy Meme, stolen fron the flist

[preussisch_blau]

Apparently this is a Q&A meme of controversial topics. Whee! I might flock this so I don't get any discussion. I'm sick of discussion. It's very annoying when all the discussion I get is, for the most part "You're so wrong your wrong is wrong and let me tell you why" or "One sentence that explains nothing".

Anyhow. Meme.

1./ Do you have the guts to answer these questions and re-post as The Controversial Survey?
...This has got to be the STUPIDEST question ever. Would I have posted this if I didn't? </snark>

2./ Would you do meth if it was legal?
No.

3./ Abortion: for or against it?
...If you're reading this, and have been reading my journal regularly, and do not know the answer to this question... Just go back and look at some of the discussion posts, among other things. I'll repeat it here for the lazy. Against, against, a thousand times against. Murder is murder, no matter what you call it. You don't want a kid, use some fucking birth control. You can't have a kid or it'll kill you? Well, fine, have the abortion, then get thee the Pill or something so you're protected in case of rape.

4./ Do you think the world would fail with a female president?
The entire world? No. The U.S.A.? Well, it hasn't been doing so hot with 43 (soon to be 44) terms of male presidents, so a female one might be a welcome change. Except I highly doubt a president alone could bring about the fall of the nation. I mean, there's that system of checks and balances for a reason. Oh, wait, I take that back. If Obama wins, he could theoretically bring about the fall of the nation because checks and balances don't work when you've got a Democrat president and an unprecedented, unbeatable majority in the Congress from the same party.

5./ Do you believe in the death penalty?
Murder is murder. So no. I don't believe in the death penalty.

6./ Do you wish marijuana would be legalized already?
I really don't care.

7./ Are you for or against premarital sex?
Is this a serious legal issue? No. Why is this here? For the record, I'm against premarital sex, at least for myself. There's no need to test drive someone for how good they are in bed. In fact, if that's the only thing that would keep you from marrying an otherwise wonderful person, I'm afraid I have no respect for you.

8./ Do you believe in God?
Yes. I also believe in the reality of science, evolution, the existence of the dinosaurs, the world being millions of years old, and quantum physics. Now, anyone here care to call me stupid and brainwashed?

9./ Do you think same sex marriage should be legalized?
I don't think marriage should be a government institution, given that, at least in the U.S.A., the government idea of marriage is too heavily influenced by the Judeo-Christian institution. Separate church and state and leave marriage as the religious institution and come up with something else for the legal one. Oh, and having a church ceremony doesn't automatically entitle you to the legal benefits. You have to have the legal one too, otherwise it doesn't count in the eyes of the law.

10./ Do you think it's wrong that so many Hispanics are illegally moving to the U.S.A.?
Yes. Just because illegal immigration happened in the past, and just because European settlers weren't invited over and given visas and committed horrible acts agains the native people, doesn't change the fact that these people are breaking the law, draining off of tax benefits designed for legal citizens, and killing legal citizens in car accidents and such because they can't get a license and don't follow American traffic laws. Does it suck that it's hard to get here legally? Yeah. Still, I don't want Americans who can't be bothered to go through the process and become actual Americans, but instead sneak in and cling to the culture of their former home and cry "racist" whenever someone expects them to be loyal to the country as a whole and not just their race. This country has no room for hyphenated Americans. Either be an American or don't if you plan on living here. I sure as Hell wouldn't move to Mexico, refuse to learn Mexican Spanish, and demand to be called an American-Mexican. In fact, Americans who go to other countries legally and refuse to learn the local language and culture are considered horrible. Yet it's okay for people to enter America illegally and never learn a spot of American English or any of our culture, and if we say something about it, we're racist! Fuck. That. Shit.

11./ A twelve year old girl has a baby, should she keep it?
Already mentioned my feelings on abortion, so let's just say it was decided that she ought to carry the child to term (by the way, I think this is something that should be left to the discretion of qualified medical professionals and the parents of the girl involved). She should not have to raise the child, as she's still a child herself. The baby should either be raised by the girl's parents or given up for adoption.

13./ Should the war in Iraq be called off?
At this point, when we're very close to being able to sucessfully withdraw and leave behind a stable government? No. We shouldn't just bring everyone home. We need to stay and finish what we began. Right now, in the Anbar province, the Marines have almost finished withdrawing from Fallujah out to their desert base, and are considering leaving the province entirely. Violence is at an all time low since the start of the war. We're almost done, no need to call it off now.

14./ Assisted suicide is illegal: do you agree?
Yes, it should stay illegal. In my college medical ethics class, we learned about cases where countries that had legal assisted suicide had doctors who would, to help empty hospital beds, assist patients who couldn't really decide for themselves to die. I don't like the potential for abuse.

15./ Do you believe in spanking your children?
Yes, I do. It's about the only thing that kept me in line.

16./ Would you burn an American flag for a million dollars?
No, no I wouldn't, and I'd punch anyone in the face who is American and would. Get the fuck out of this country and renounce your citizenship if you hate it that much. I wouldn't burn ANY nation's flag, but that's because I have enough brains to know that a nation's flag is the symbol of that nation and is therefore worthy of respect; the same respect I'd accord to an ambassador or citizen of that nation.

17./ Who do you think would make a better president? McCain or Obama?
Of the two? McCain. If I had my way? Senator Tom Carper.

18. Are you afraid others will judge you from reading some of your answers?
You mean they don't already? Bring it on. *cracks knuckles* I may not believe in legalised murder, but I do believe in ass-kicking.

Comments

[skew-whiff.livejournal.com]

Oh, Sparra. I sometimes feel you're a sucker for punishment, I really do. What with the general tendency towards woolly liberalism of our generation, I'm not sure what you're expecting. Echo chamber agreement's unlikely. So, unfortunately, is intelligent debate, because most people simply don't know enough about politics to do it correctly (I include myself in this when it comes to the US, though UK politics is another matter). Fuck knows the knee-jerk ill-informed vague leftism of my peers pisses me off, just because I wish it wasn't so ill-informed or automatic. It does one good to question one's assumptions.
Still, it's interesting to read your views set out like this. It's an interesting mix of viewpoints, though generally what I'd expect from what I know of you already. I won't go into discussion - there's absolutely no point, as although I disagree with you on quite a few of the points, I know I can't convince you otherwise, just as you couldn't convince me otherwise. It'd only lead to mudslinging and repeating the same old well-trodden arguments. It's often best to just agree to disagree.
Still, I do enjoy reading your political posts. Don't feel put off because your f-list don't give you the reactions you'd prefer. Perhaps you could set up a separate political blog if you'd rather vent your spleen without having to deal with us lot so much.

(Also, feel free to tell me to shut up with my namby-pamby "I think you're totally wrong but I like you so I'm going to be all polite and clueless" patronising bullshit. I'm sure it must get repetitive.)

[alouette-sparra.livejournal.com]

I don't particularly want an echo chamber. That's just boring. Even if they can't do reasonable intelligent debate, I'd appreciate a bit more than just a sentence or two. I'd appreciate a fucking response when I take the time to dig up some information. I mean, it's just infuriating when someone totally backs away from a good discussion in the face of one set of facts. How can you claim to support something if you're not willing to actually defend that belief?

The really annoying part is, I know my flist is fairly intelligent and very opinionated. I like my friends that way. I WANT to hear THEIR opinions, yours included, because I know you lot can actually form a decent argument and string a sentence together without using an ampersand every time you mean the word and. Yet, you, mon ami, are the only person on my flist who responds with anything resembling regularity. The people who have annoyed me so? One, I vaguely recall as being in the same fandom as me once upon a time. The other? I have no bloody clue how they got to my journal. I suppose if I used that silly Six Degrees of Separation LJ code that someone made, I'd be able to find out, but I don't particularly WANT to.

I'm mostly ticked off because, in all honesty? I can't really go anywhere on LJ other than a select portion of my own flist without being assaulted by rampant woolly liberalism. Hell, make that the INTERNET. I can't turn on the telly and reasonably expect to not have to listen to some Obama ad that's mudslinging McCain (and Obama's supposedly above that!) or look at any news source and not see/read about/listen to some reporter practically orgasming over Obama.

I can't go to a comm that has utterly no connection to politics and not hear snarky comments about McCain or Palin. I can't watch a video on YouTube that even mildly favours the Republican ticket without a bunch of assholes just flaming the place up. I can't express my political views in any form without getting flamed. Hell, I once got a flame over an icon I didn't even use!

So, I expect to be able to express my views in my own journal without people I don't even know showing up without even telling me how they got to my journal in the first place. I expect to be able to say something in my own journal without basically being told I'm stupid and/or clueless. I honestly don't mind dissenting opinions. I wouldn't have left my entries public if I minded people I didn't know showing up. Except, I guess I expect too much of people to introduce themselves before spouting off an opinion that, quite honestly, sounds like it was pulled straight from the Daily Kos or the website of any of the big liberal groups.

If that's their honest to God opinion, then fine. It just... they show little of the finesse that comes from research and logical thinking. They just spout off whatever the latest line is. Which, you know, if I were looking for the latest line, I could just look at a newspaper.

Also, quit it with that polite chickenshit. If you disagree, just say so and say why. If m_buggie were able to get online, I'm sure she'd be able to say quite authoritatively that, while we certainly don't agree on everything, we have yet to resort to mudslinging and insults. It's the product of intelligent discussion.

To tell the truth, I don't mind the non-reactions. I could even get used to the vocal, broken record disagreement (seriously, do people even look to see if what they're commenting about has already been brought up in a different entry?!). I just wish that the people who I KNOW agree with me would comment too. >:| It's pretty annoying when you've been told by someone that they agree with you when you're talking to them privately, yet the moment there's a chance for them to support you publicly they just IM you with some pithy agreement. If you REALLY agree with me, say something to the entry, for fuck's sake.

[skew-whiff.livejournal.com]

Ah, grass is greener - I hear the same 'the whole world is against me' spiel from liberal Americans just as much. There must be some places you can go. Conservative-leaning LJ comms? Blogs? Forums? They're out there.
I presume you must have conservative friends on your f-list, though, but they don't seem to have turned up. That's a pity. It does give one the impression that it's you versus everybody you know. Including, as you said, some people I've never seen before. Perhaps you need to prune your f-list a little, or block some folks who've friended you.

*

As for commentary on what you said, well.

The things I agree with:
- Yeah, I wouldn't do meth either.
- With you on the death penalty thing. Seems hypocritical to punish killing with killing.
- #8 made me grin. I'm not religious, but my family are, and they're also pretty fond of science. I absolutely detest this idea that religion and science are opposed. They're really not.
- With you on the marriage thing, too. It would save a lot of fuss and make some things more equal if they separated the religious and civil aspects. We have civil partnerships for same-sex couples in the UK; I want that to be extended to opposite-sex couples too.
- #13, to my surprise. You can't just run away without tidying up after yourself, and anyway, they are planning to pull out now. Sure, it was a bad idea in the first place in my opinion, but you've got to finish what you started.

Some disagreements, in brief:
- You believe a foetus is a separate human life. I don't. And that, I believe, is pretty much an intractable difference. There's not much middle ground there.
- #7 - I don't see what the big deal is about waiting until marriage. I don't see how a ceremony turns something wrong into something right. But hey, if you want to, no problem. It's a matter of personal choice.
- 'This country has no room for hyphenated Americans?' Really? It's a very big country, and well, I know you address that point already, but I do feel that a country built on immigration shouldn't do an about-face and close its gates to the desperate and needy. What about your tired, your sick, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free? My view on immigration has often been that if you are in such a dire state you will break the damn law to get somewhere else, you're desperate enough to deserve to be allowed to live there.
- I'm pretty damn patriotic, and I'd happily burn a British flag for five pounds, let alone a million. Flags undoubtedly carry symbolic importance and all that, but they're just bits of fabric. I could never understand how you could be too strongly offended by the destruction of a symbol alone. Perhaps that's a cultural thing. We don't make as big a deal of the flag here.

So um, yeah. I'm simplifying a lot here, but that's pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell.

[alouette-sparra.livejournal.com]

The problem is that right now, all the conservative comms and blogs seem to be talking about is the latest crap from the mainstream media and things Obama supporters do against McCain supporters that rarely, if ever, get picked up for national news, when a man yelling "Kill him" about William Ayers at a Palin rally suddenly is all across the nation, being spun as a huge crowd screaming death threats about Obama. I really am quite sick of the latest trash from the liberals, and any liberal who thinks it's them against the conservatives ought to take a look at the internet and realise that, here at least, the conservatives are either a minority or a VERY silent majority for fear of being called 'bots' and 'racists' and 'inhuman'.

I know I have conservative friends. I really wish they'd show up. --;;;; Even if it's just to say, "I agree." Sometimes an "I agree" can go a long way.

To your disagreements, in brief:
-I have my reasons, mostly due to the scientific definition of life, but I doubt any amount of debate would get either of us to concede the point.
-Well, I don't care what other people do, honestly, so long as they respect my boundaries. My main issue is that, from other answers I've seen to this question, some people only really care about sexual compatibility, and I just can't see not marrying/partnering with an otherwise wonderful human being because they aren't quite as good in the sack as you'd prefer. That and, at least with younger teenagers, sex can be seen as the be all and end all of a relationship. But... Just don't expect it of me, and I don't care WHAT you do.
-It wouldn't bother me so much if they, despite moving here illegally, developed loyalty to the nation and obeyed all the laws, but I live in an area with a lot of Hispanic immigrants, legal and illegal, and that just doesn't happen. Whatever happened to immigrants like my great-grandmother, who refused to teach her grandchildren Italian because they were Americans? Of course, I may just be bitter because I spent this past summer trying to get a job, and every place I applied to ended up hiring people who couldn't even understand English. *grumble*
-I think it's more to do with flag protocol and the circumstances under which flags have been burned in the past. I mean, if you were to pay me a million to do a flag burning ceremony (the only proper way to dispose of an old, worn flag), then I'd do it. But if you just wanted me to burn a flag for the shock value... The first non-ceremonial flag burnings that I ever heard of were from my parents talking about Viet-Nam War protestors who had communist sympathies. The ones mentioned on the news are done by anti-American protestors. I don't want to do something like that, and I have a hard time believing anyone who lives here could do such a thing, just because of what I assosciate it with.

[spock74.livejournal.com]

First of all, I totally respect you and you absolutely have the right to your opinions. I agree with pretty much none of them, but that's OK. The one thing I do feel the need to pick out is in the abortion portion of the post. If I'm reading correctly, you think that every woman should be on the Pill in case she gets raped. Ummm...yeah. That's not going to work. Me, for one. I cannot take birth control because of a medical condition. In your world, if I was raped and got pregnant, I would have to have the baby. Not cool.

Anyway, I'm not going to go any farther because my purpose is not to get things stirred up, just to point out something you may not have thought of. As always, a very passionate and well-articulated (but for the profanity) post.

[alouette-sparra.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry. I understand that some people can't be on birth control for whatever reason, it just seems like the common argument for abortion totally ignores the fact that there's birth control that doesn't involve the guy having to do anything. I just think that if you can be on birth control and it's so important to you that you not get pregnant, that you use some sort of birth control.

Although, I still fail to understand why an innocent should have to die for someone else's crime.

[skew-whiff.livejournal.com]

Brief thing of note - the Pill is 99% effective if used exactly as it should be. Which means if you do everything the box says and get it right all the time (which plenty of people don't, as everyone has off days), there's still a one in a hundred chance you could get knocked up the next time you have sex. Same goes for all contraceptives, really. They do work, almost all of the time, but some folks are just unlucky.

[alouette-sparra.livejournal.com]

Pretty sure it's 99.9%, actually, so 1 in 1.000.

Either way, it does suck to be that unlucky person.

Although you'll note I never said to ban abortion. I'm against it, I have some very strong feelings about it, and I long for the day where no woman will ever feel the need to abort a child. However, at least with legal abortion, if something goes wrong, a woman won't be charged as a criminal for seeking medical treatment for whatever the problem is. So, until we don't have women needing abortions, I will grudgingly accept the legality so that women don't end up incontinent, sterile, or dead because something went wrong and they were too afraid to go to the emergency room.

[redheadaholic.livejournal.com]

Okay, I missed this the first go round, but this is such an intriguing list of topics, I feel the need to respond.

2. No. Meth is evil. Really, really evil. Totally destroys people in such a short period of time and the ability to kick this one is very, very (did I mention VERY) difficult.

3. For. No equivocation or qualification.

4. OK, this one made me laugh out loud 'cause it's ridiculous in so many ways. Your point is a good one (re: the quality of the male presidents so far). Also, the USA is not actually the center of the universe. We are so egotistical to think that if our country implodes the rest of the world will somehow be unable to keep on functioning. I think history bears out that no country/civilization is safe from becoming obsolete. On a more specific note, I think female presidents will be just like male presidents - some good, some bad, some just okay.

5. Nope.

6. Yes. Think of the tax revenue! And all the money that will be saved from the portion of LE budgets dedicated to enforcing these laws.

7. This one should be completely personal choice and am not sure why it's anybody else's business one way or the other.

8. Yes. And I agree 100% with your perspective on this.

9. Yep. And my reasoning is almost identical to yours. Plus, again, good for the economy - increase in licenses and fees, catering, etc.

10. I think this one is a lot more complicated that a short answer can handle, but given that. My preference is legal immigration, if possible. But the history of immigration laws is often sordid and biased and ever changing, so we need to take the human factor into account, too. I agree with several of the other comments that what often motivates illegal immigration is desperation, a view of life here as being much better, and a desire to improve the individuals'a and/or family's lot in life. So, I think we need to be compassionate in how we respond to the vast majority of immigrants. That said, I don't think we should be tolerating criminal activity from anyone, legal or not, particularly violent crime. And as to the language issue, I think it's important to embrace the language of your new home, but I also think we need to be careful about people feeling the need to "lose" their original language. My mom was first generation, and both her parents were German, and she doesn't speak a word of German. It was forbidden, even in the home, because of the bias in the country against German immigrants at that time (WWI & II). That seems a shame to me.

11. OY! Using your assumptions, I'm pretty much with you on this one.

13. I'm not certain you can just "call off" a war, like cancelling a dinner date or a dentist appointment. If it's possible, I think we need to withdraw in a way that is thoughtful and strategic (whatever the timeline) and as non-chaotic as possible. I'm not sure we will be able to prevent the inevitable chaos that may erupt/continue after we leave, given all the different sects/tribes/factions, but that is a history that was there long before we came along (whatever your feelings about the war).

14. I'm torn on this one, and there is a measure on the ballot in my state (Washington) as I write this. I still haven't made up my mind.

15. Yes, in limited situations.

16. I don't have strong feelings on this one, though I do think it falls under protected political speech. Mostly I don't think it's a huge issue affecting too many people's lives. Back when Congress was trying to get a constitutional amendment passed to ban flag burning, my wise (and sarcastic) father, who is very conservative Republican, groused, "Yeah, 'cause there are just idiots burning flags on every corner in my town. It's such a rampant problem."

17. Obama. Though he is actually my third choice.

18. I'm someone who just wants people to HAVE an opinion. I don't care if I agree with you (and am open to hearing others views and even occassionally changing my mind), but how can you NOT have an opinion? That I just do not understand!

[alouette-sparra.livejournal.com]

2./ I take it you know people who used meth?

3./ Oh come now, I think you need to have reasons for holding an opinion. Right now you don't sound like you do.

4./ Yeah, that was a ridiculous question. I mean, unless we all become members of a worldwide union and the first female president of that union is a total nitwit...

7./ I didn't get that question either. I was like, "Huh? That's pretty personal..."

10./ I guess I wouldn't have so many problems if it weren't for the sheer number of illegals near where I live who have no respect for the law. But then, why should they? I mean, one of my high school friends, her car was hit on the driver's side by an illegal driving a truck. Her hip was shattered and she had severe head injuries. To this day she has lingering mental problems, can no longer run, and is PETRIFIED of the idea of driving. The illegal? Spent some time in jail until bail was made. He was never deported. Same with some drunk, licenseless illegals who ran a kid over. Got to stay here. I'm sorry, but that sort of crime should always mean being deported.

As far as language... I mean, there are problems when you have kids who were born here to two Spanish speaking parents who still can't speak English properly by high school. It sucks to lose that native language, but my great-grandmother wouldn't teach her children and grandchildren Italian because they NEEDED English to survive in an English-speaking country. I think it's a disservice to your children to prevent them from learning the local language and then complain that everything ought to be in Spanish for you. *grumbles*

13./ Yeah. Really, with how the Anbar province is going with the Marine Corps withdrawal, I think we can expect peace in Iraq. After all, Fallujah used to be the most chaotic, war torn city, and now? Peace. It can be done. We just need to think and be respectful.

16./ LOL. Banning flag burning? How do we respectfully dispose of used, worn flags, if we can't burn them? (I know, they probably exempted the ceremonial burning from this, but still.) I dunno. I explained a bit better to Skew.

[redheadaholic.livejournal.com]

2. I don't have any friends or family who have used Meth, but I worked in the criminal justice system for a long time (federal) and the number of defendants who were addicted to Meth (at least in my area) is staggering. And, unlike some other drugs (e.g. Heroin), where you can go for quite a long time as a functional human being (as long as you are getting the drug on a regular basis), Meth grabs you and starts to suck you dry from the first use. There may be rare exceptions, but I have never heard of anyone who tried Meth once and then was like, "Nah, not for me."

3. I hesitated to get into the details of my opinion on abortion, due to the exchange above and your very definitive stance on this one, and my pretty much completely opposite views. And let me be clear that I respect your views (and appreciate the consistency with being anti-aborion and anti-death penalty), both based on sacredness of life. I'm not one of those wing-nuts who thinks because someone is opposed to abortion that they are somehow an irrational idiot. The fact is most of my family members are anti-abortion and shake their heads at me in confusion on this one (especially since I am also a practicing Catholic). And don't think THAT isn't challenging, since the Catholic Church defines abortion as intrinsically evil. What FUN conversations I have with my fellow parishioners.

Anyway, so the short version for me is I do believe life begins at conception. I just don't believe that that life has the same moral weight/status as the mother's and father's. I struggle with the idea of the soul and whether that is present at conception, but I think I fall more in the Jewish camp on this one than the Catholic camp. No doubt I will continue to struggle on this point.

I also believe that it should be a last resort and not used an ongoing means of birth control. And most of the women I know who have had an abortion have had only one, though I also know a few who have had more for a variety of reasons. And that's the crux of the matter for me, humans are imperfect and so are our current support systems. Given that, unwanted pregnancies are going to happen for a wide variety of reasons, and I don't think anyone should be in on the decision on how to respond to that situation (be it having and keeping the child, giving up for adoption or abortion) other than the people involved, their doctors and anyone else whose counsel they choose to seek. And I certainly don't think it should be criminal for the very eloquent reasons you stated above.

So, now you know.

10. I don't think you and I are that far apart on the immigration issue. We both seem to be people who want other people to be responsible and civil. And I don't disagree on the language issue. If possible, I do think children should be encouraged to learn the language of their new country as soon as possible, and there shouldn't be an expectation that everything will be be in several languages. (That said, there's a bunch of English/Japanese going on in my part of the world!)

[alouette-sparra.livejournal.com]

2./ Well, that counts as knowing, I'd say. I've never known anyone who used meth. Where I used to live, marijuana and cocaine seemed to be the drugs of choice. Here, it's mostly marijuana (and I swear, it's like EVERYONE here uses marijuana, or used to).

3./ See, I can understand your views on abortion. Actually, they remind me very much of another person's.

If you go by the Bible, the life and soul are in the blood (don't ask me the passage, but I'm fairly certain it's in Leviticus, as it's the reason why the Israelites are forbidden from drinking the blood of animals). A foetus doesn't have it's own blood until the 6th week of development. You can add that to your considerations if you want.

Hopefully the support systems will get better with time, so there are less women who think they have to have an abortion, otherwise they won't have any support for raising the child or finding it a home where it can be taken care of. Although I don't know if this will happen, as I once got in an argument with someone online who thought it was "stupid" and "ridiculous" that a Christian charity would give pregnant women and new mothers anything they needed to raise the child through toddler-hood for little or nothing, yet wouldn't offer birth control or abortions. (The annoying part of that argument was that random passers-by proceeded to get on MY case when I argued that the owners of the charity might not agree with abortion, and were instead offering support so that maybe a woman who felt like she had no choice but abortion might reconsider. That, and why should a group focused on providing child care supplies, like formula/food and car seats, provide medical care as well?)